跳跃 - 第3季 - 第1集
雪莉：本周，我与传奇艺术家戴维·伯恩（David Byrne）坐下来，谈论其中一首歌，使他走上了一个盲目的成功的独奏，该职业生涯跨越了四十年以上，我们谈到了保持音乐所需的内容45年后，在一个艺术家的平均预期寿命大约五分钟后，新鲜的新鲜。我是雪莉·曼森。这就是跳跃。
We are here today to talk to you about a moment in your career where there was a change in direction or there was a leap of faith or something happened and you changed your trajectory. Much to my surprise, I have to confess you picked Loco de Amor from your second solo record.
大卫：是的。I can explain.
Shirley: Good. You'd better.
大卫:是的。I figured the obvious choice would be a song that was a big hit that everybody knows, and I thought, "Yes, but everybody knows those." Then I realized there's this song that kind of happened by accident, and it really did change the direction I was going in for a number of years. It starts with me in New York. This would be mid-eighties, and salsa, the Latin music, was a big part of the music of New York during the seventies and into the eighties, and yet it was its own bubble.
有岩石泡沫。有一个朋克泡沫。有爵士泡沫，还有一个莎莎泡沫。他们常常从未，从未见过，我有点奇怪。因此，我开始购买一些唱片，这是乙烯基，通常是从第42街地铁站的唱片店中购买的。
雪莉：非常莫斯科。
David: Yes, it is very Moscow. You'd have to go down the stairs into the dank subway station, and there was the little record shop that had really the greatest stuff in that genre. So, I would get some. Sometimes I'd find ones that I loved. I'd put them on, and I'd dance around my loft in downtown New York. I just thought, "Oh, this music is so great for dancing. The vocals are so sensuous, but also really passionate. It was the kind of thing that I needed in my personal life at that point, break loose of who I was and who I was being branded as. I've realized that I personally wanted to find an escape from that, and I was finding that, just putting these records on and dancing around by myself in my loft.
A lot of the records were by a woman named Celia Cruz who was the queen of Latin music, and I loved her voice. It cut. It had this, whatever, this nasal sound that just cut right through.
Celia Cruz: (singing)
雪莉：以有趣的方式，这是一种雌雄同体的声音。不是吗？
大卫：并不是那样，通常是这个美丽的女人的声音。
雪莉:是的。大卫:但是我,就像我找到了它。.. It seemed to me to be coming straight from the heart, and it just cut right through the sound of it that I thought, "Wow, this is really amazing," and some great songs too. So, I'm doing this. This is going on, and I'm making a little mix tapes for myself of my favorite tunes, kind of getting into this. So, the film director Jonathan Demme had done a movie called Something Wild, and he was looking for a title track for the opening sequence. So, he came to me and said, "Can you write a song for this? I want something that gives a sense of Manhattan as being an island." I said, "Oh, I think I can do that, but I have a condition. My dream is to do a duet with Celia Cruz."
Shirley: Wow.
大卫：“你能做到这一点吗？”我想：“好吧，这不是一个疯狂的需求，但这是一个不寻常的需求。”鉴于我所闻名的音乐，我来自哪里。但是他们说：“是的。”所以他们问。他们与她的丈夫和小号手的经理交谈，与她的标签家伙，名叫约翰尼·帕切科（Johnny Pacheco）和其他一些人交谈。他们说：“是的，我们要这样做。”所以，我写了
Shirley: Did they know who you were at this point?
David: They probably thought of me as this rock punk rock guy, and they probably thought, "This is the weirdest idea in the world. What does this guy want to do with us?" They did know my name, and they must've thought, "What the hell does this guy want to do with us?" But they also thought, "We want our music to be heard by a wider audience, and maybe this guy is going to help us do that." I wrote this song, and Johnny Pacheco helped add some little bits to the chorus and whatever. He put together this incredible band. A guy named Ray Barretto was on congas. It was just this dream band.
(singing)
雪莉：他们都是重量级人物，对吗？
大卫：是的。他们是重量级人物，他们把它们放在一起。我带来了这首歌，从他们的角度来看，这首歌是这首怪异的混合动力。对我来说，我以为我在做一首拉丁歌。
Shirley: So hold on. Let me take you back just slightly first. So when you wrote it, where did you write it, in your apartment?
David: Oh, I must've written it in New York in my apartment, wherever, that loft, where I was dancing around.
雪莉：你写了什么？
大卫：我可能就像电吉他，原声吉他和一个小鼓一样写在上面。我可能有一台我放了一个小程序的小型鼓机。这是在我们可以在笔记本电脑或任何此类内容上录制多轨之前。
雪莉:是的。
David: This was whatever you could do. Sometimes I would do multitracks by recording some parts on a cassette recorder, playing that cassette recorder, and then playing along with that. So, you can imagine. The quality went down very, very steeply. I've actually had one of those four tracks, and then it was a thing that you could record four tracks on a cassette. I might've put the drum machine on one track and then myself and some harmonies and stuff on the other track.
雪莉：所以，您完成了它，然后将其带到Celia Cruz和她的整个团队。
David: When you say, "Finished it," it was very rough. My demos tend to be very rough. I want to leave room for this dream band to have some input into it. So, I didn't fill in all the details, and it wasn't, "Well, the base part goes like this," or whatever. I thought, "No, they will know how to do this best."
雪莉:是的。
大卫：是的。
雪莉：很棒。那么，您在哪里为他们演奏？您是去工作室并为他们演奏的工作室，还是发送了盒式录音带？
David: They came to my loft, to my place. We played the song. We talked about it, and they would, "Oh, I think this is..." They would discuss it amongst themselves and go, "I think this is actually this kind of feel," and they would talk about it. "I think we should get so-and-so on piano on this song," or, "I think we should get this." Then Johnny would go, "What if Celia had an answer vocal to David's vocal on this line or this line and this line? How do we do that? Let's have some of it in Spanish and some of it in English."
因此，它被锤打了一点，然后，那就好了，现在我们几天后去了工作室。
雪莉：对。
大卫：这可能是一个很大的工作室，因为我们想现场录制乐队的重要组成部分。
(singing)
雪莉：乐队有多大？我真的无法从聆听曲目中分辨出您在那里有多少人。
大卫：就像许多拉丁乐队一样，通常有三位打击乐器。然后，您有一个低音钢琴。我在弹节奏吉他。那是核心群体，然后是喇叭部分，后来可能会过度配音。
(singing)
Shirley: And was Celia there when you first went into record, or did she come later?
David: We may have recorded the tracks before she came in.
雪莉：对。
大卫：作为女王，我们不想让她等待。
雪莉：你不能让女王等待。
大卫:是的。Yes. Okay. So, we've recorded the track, and there's elements in the lyrics. It's kind of a love song, but it's also a song about the city because Jonathan wanted something that talked about Manhattan as being a island. I thought, "Oh, island, tropical Island. So, let's treat Manhattan as if it's a tropical island." She and Johnny added some Santería Yoruba African chant stuff at the end. I thought that was really cool.
所以，乔纳森喜欢它。它在电影的标题中非常有效，最终最终播放了我所做的唱片Rei Momo，整张专辑是与拉丁音乐家一起完成的。
雪莉:是的。
David: But that album and the album I did after that only happened because of that session with Celia Cruz.
雪莉：里伊·莫莫（Rei Momo）是指狂欢节之王还是狂欢节之王？
David: Yes, king of the carnival, and it means the fat buffoon king of the carnival.
雪莉：对。是的。那一开始就有这种哀叹，对吗？塞西莉亚开始唱歌的时候，真的有...
David: Oh, yeah. There's just wordless chant in the beginning.
Shirley: Which sounds mournful, like a lament, it sounds to me, and then this party music comes in. It's kind of fantastic.
大卫：在某种程度上，这是非常超越的，哀悼和忧郁，但也超然。我想，“哦，我喜欢那种感觉”，然后闯入了这个舞蹈庆祝活动。
雪莉:是的。
大卫：（唱歌）。我喜欢那个对比。
雪莉:是的。
大卫：是的。正如我所说，这首歌和我所做的效果是使我能够感觉到：“好吧，如果我愿意，我可以做更多的事情。我可以做更多的歌曲并与这些音乐家一起工作，并且也许它可以起作用。我可以看到这可以起作用。”
雪莉：所以，这是整张专辑的第一首歌。
大卫:是的。I didn't know that it was going to be an album at that point, and at that point, Talking Heads were going through a pretty difficult period, although I had done some things on my own before. But I thought, "Maybe I'll do a whole album on my own."
雪莉：对。
David: So, I thought, "Okay. If I'm going to do this, I can't do something that sounds like a Talking Heads record, because then it's like, well, why bother doing it on your own, unless you're just trying to make more money?" People do that.
雪莉：是的，他们做到了。
大卫:是的。所以,我想我会做我的东西couldn't do with them, which I'll do work with these Latin musicians. I ended up doing a whole record. It was maybe not that well-received not that well received in this country, but when I went on tour with it, it was actually very well received in Latin America, which shocked me because I thought, "I have to tour this to Latin America. I have to face the music," so to speak. It's a bit like taking coals to Newcastle. This is their music, and here's the white punk rocker, whatever, playing their music. I could be laughed out of town. But it actually was very well received there, and psychologically or personally, it did a lot for me.
It allowed me to dance more on stage, to feel this sensuous rhythm and music and these melancholy melodies and all this stuff that allowed me to break free of being the angsty guy that I had been pigeonholed as being. Then it was certainly a part of who I was at that time. It allowed me to break out of that in some ways, which was a whole process that I was going through personally and musically and everything like that. So, it had a huge impact on how I am personally and the music that I could do from then on.
雪莉：嗯（肯定）。您真的很愿意谈论白色和您的决心，始终从其他文化，不同的思想和不同的哲学等上宣传音乐，等等。我觉得那是许多音乐的先驱，变得更加多种族，多民族，更广泛地将音乐视为一种非常现代的方式，或者肯定是这样。这是一种看音乐的现代方式。这位白色艺术摇滚歌手进来并与拉丁莎莎节拍合作。
大卫：这是一个非常奇怪的组合。我的意思是，有一些爵士艺术家与拉丁音乐家合作。那很普遍。我可以使用那些凹槽，并在其中添加爵士乐独奏，但是在相当多的几十年中，那里一直存在真正的分歧。因此，这确实是一件不寻常的事情。现在，正如您所说，现在没有任何联系，但是现在像嘻哈和流行音乐中的雷鬼舞一样，然后有很多非洲艺术家正在做电子节拍和事情。你只是走，“哇，这一切是怎么发生的？”与我无关。
Shirley: Well, that's not true. I think actually you have absolutely pushed forward these ideas of different influences.
David: It could be. It could be. I know that I was very excited that Hank Shocklee, one of the guys on Public Enemy was a fan of that record. I thought, "Whoa. Whoa. Wow. Now, we're talking." And I was also really happy that I went one time to a big disco here back in the days. It was called the Paradise Garage, and the DJ played a track off that record.
Shirley: Wow.
大卫：我想：“哇，所以我现在可以死了。”
雪莉:是的。
大卫:是的。
Shirley: I mean, it's a beautiful record. It's really amazing, but to play it in a disco, I'm blown away. Wow, that must have sounded pretty freaky on the dance floor.
大卫:是的。是的。I think they might've pumped up the base a little bit. (singing).
雪莉（Shirley）：跳跃是由我，雪莉·曼森（Shirley Manson）主持的，由丹恩·加卢奇（Dann Gallucci）制作。跳跃是MailChimp的原始系列，与无处不在的合作生产。Dann Gallucci和Jane Marie是执行制片人。迈克·里希特（Mike Richter）混合了跳跃。Hrishikesh Hirway创作的原创音乐，非常感谢我们出色的Booker Mara Davis。
