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跳跃 - 第三季 - 第2集

Joe Talbot is the charismatic lead singer of iconic British band Idles. They leaped to the top of the British charts last year in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic and scored a big fat number one, with the album Ultra Mono. However, I got to speak to this captivating human being about one of the songs off their killer debut album, Brutalism. I was struck most of all by Joe's consideration and thoughtfulness, his humility and his wicked sense of humor. Listen on and you will hear for yourself. I'm Shirley Manson and this is The Jump.

Yeah, listen. I am so thrilled to have you on here today.

乔：谢谢。Where exactly are you?

Shirley: I'm in Los Angeles, California. Where are you?

乔：哦，我在布里斯托尔。

Shirley: Lovely. That's where you live though, right?

乔：是的。我最近又回去了。我在我的老人呆了一年，在加的夫，现在我回到了这里。

Shirley: Yeah. I had no idea you were born in Wales.

Joe: Indeed, yeah. Is it St David's day today or, was that yesterday? I'm not much of a nationalist or anything but I think it was...

雪莉：我不知道。我是苏格兰人。我怎么知道？

Joe: What day do you have? Is that St. Andrew's?

雪莉：我们有圣安德鲁节，你有圣大卫。

Joe: Yeah, we do. Between us, we've got all the fucking saints. Lucky us.

Shirley: Not all of them, Joe.

Joe: I'd rather have a thistle than a daffodil though.

Shirley: Well, fuck yeah. It's a lot handier in a fight, for a start.

乔：我喜欢那个。这是您的第一个...这花有益什么？进攻。

雪莉：我是维京人。我能告诉你什么？

Joe: Fuck yeah.

Shirley: So we are here today, to talk about a particular song from your debut album, Brutalism. How do you say it? 1049 Gotho, or 1049 Gotho...

Joe: That's a really weird [crosstalk]. No one's ever in the fucking... I don't know when we made that song. No one's ever asked me that. This is a new... this is like, "Is the dress blue or is it black?" It's 10, four, nine Gotho. I don't know why I say 10, four, nine, I'm not American, but it's 10, four, nine.

Shirley: Why did you pick this song out of all these amazing songs on this incredible debut album?

Joe: 10, four, nine, Gotho, was the first moment in my life where I unhinged myself enough to write a poem without deciding what the words were but that made sense as a message. Which was, I was writing about my best friend who explained depression for the first time and I wanted to put that in a song. So I just wrote this thing almost automatically when I was ready. And it was the first time I achieved that. But 1049 Gotho's the first time I wrote a song that made me cry and then every other fucking song made me cry because I like to cry, apparently.

Shirley: Nothing wrong with crying.

Joe: No, unless you're trying to sing in front of an audience.

"My friend is so depressed He wishes he was dead I swam inside his head And this is what he said. Help me, help me Won't someone set me free? There's no right side of the bed With a body like mine and a mind like mine"

Joe: I learned a lot from 1049 Gotho, in terms of giving myself enough slack to just write whatever came to my head. It's like meditation. You don't sit there and go, "Right. I'm meditating now. This is good. I'm meditating. Hmm. I'm good at meditating, me." You don't do that. You just sit there and meditate. You unthink. And I think with song writing, it's a meditative thing where if you're thinking about the audience, or what you're doing to the audience, or if you're thinking about your messaging or you're thinking about your word or your stanza, or... you're already too far removed, in my opinion, from the visceral nature of what music and art, does to me, which is save my life.

Shirley: How did the song come together then? What's the process on this particular song?

Joe: We always start with the music. It's not...

Shirley: In a rehearsal room or in a studio?

乔：是的。因此，我们总是……我们有……我们有一个可怕的练习室，我们都可以在每个放大器的氛围中融入其中。它是一个地下，就像一个地窖型练习室网络。而且，如果您等待足够长的时间，那么墙上的蘑菇就像蘑菇一样，您实际上可以看到孢子吐出孢子。您可以看到蘑菇吐到大气中。老实说，它是性交的。

Shirley: And this is in Bristol, right?

乔：是的。In Bristol. In King Square.

Shirley: So you all squeezed in there?

Joe: We're all squeezed in there. It was...

Shirley: How many times a week?

Joe: We practiced there, three times a week, at least. So we'd do seven hours on a Sunday, six hours on a Tuesday, six hours on a Thursday.

Shirley：那么，当您在歌曲（特别是在10、4，9，哥哥）上创作时，乐队都在他妈的时在做什么？就像它如何汇聚在一起[Crosstalk]

Joe: Well, I kind of get involved with the writing process a lot. So, I'll either come to the band with a part, or a whole song.

Shirley: How do you all know when it's ready for you to jump in as a vocalist and lyricist? How does that work?

Joe: You know, we're like super cutthroat. When it comes to writing and when we're in the studio, because the only time we really witness other people's interaction with us as a band, being productive, is when we're in a studio, recording.

突然,工程师们坐在那里,“什么the fuck. You're supposed to be about love and community." We're there like knifing each other. We've got our own way of doing it and it is basically, "Stop playing that, that's dog shit and I'll explain why." And then you explain why and the person you just told that their part is dog shit, they'll go, "Yeah, you're right." And then move on. That's it. There's no like, "Oh, come on, man. That's bang out of order." We just cut the bullshit. And we're like, "This isn't working because..." And as long as you say, "because", you can use as many horrible adjectives as you want about it.

Shirley: So, you're all policing each other, I get that. And then, as you're working on the song, I'm assuming it takes a while to wrangle a song, so it's not just like over the course of one rehearsal, right? It's over a course of several?

乔：10、4，九，哥哥，也许有一天。这是有史以来第一次，我们都写了这首歌，然后抬头抬起头，就像：“操。这真是太神奇了。”由此，我有一种我朋友告诉我他沮丧的感觉。这是一件非常新的东西，被困在我的脑海中，但是这首歌使我对这种情况感到有些感觉。就像歌曲唤起一种感觉。当我时不时地写这首歌时，我只是允许我的朋友向我开放并改变生活的事件，因为所有最好的老师都会以某种方式解释某些东西向您解释了一百万次，但突然单击。这就是我的朋友和他的沮丧，这使我以以前从未有过的方式对抑郁症表示同情。

雪莉：因为您从未遭受抑郁症？

Joe: I've never suffered. I never will, I don't think. I'm lucky. I get down and really depressed, situationally and I've been through a lot of trauma and I struggle with recovering from trauma in a lot of ways and I've dealt with drug addiction and stuff but I don't have the illness of depression where I, for no reason, have this huge weight of melancholia that's crippling. And I've never had that. But my friend made me understand it and that really shook me.

(singing): "My friend is so depressed He wishes he was dead I swam inside his head And this is what he said. Help me, help me Won't someone help me sleep? There's no right side of the bed With a body like mine and a mind like mine My friend is so depressed She wanted to have sex I pissed in the kitchen sink As she slowly undressed"

Shirley: It has no typical structure and there's a lot of repetition in it.

Joe: I'm glad you brought up repetition. Repetition was like, with each album I've taken on a different tool, linguistic tool. So with Brutalism, it was.... Brutalism literally like a sledgehammer, so I'm just repeating the thing. And that's the visceral nature of it. It's this big brutish message that I just repeat over and over again, like the windows or the stories of a car park. It's just like hammered in. And I wanted to use that.

Shirley: The line I love the most, if you don't mind me saying, is, "We won't last five fucking minutes with a body like mine and a mind like mine."

乔：是的。That was like, a line where it kind of crossed over from empathy where I experienced the perspective of his depression, with my drug addiction, bulimia and I guess, grief. And the way I dealt with grief, which was really dangerous for myself and other people really. And it was just me realizing that I was lucky to not be depressed, but also burning every bridge that could have been built for me. And I lived a very fucked life, I guess you'd say. I was very lonely and also scared. Like a scared little boy. I lived like a scared little boy in a man's body, doing a lot of drugs and drinking and being a violent prick. I wasn't a very nice man. Although, I also was. Like, I say this to people and they're like, "What you going on about?" And I think it was like, I wasn't very nice to myself.

雪莉：听起来像这样。

乔：是的。And like, to my partners, I really tested those early relationships. So, I was a real nasty prick. And my friends that were always coming back to me, I really pushed and pulled those. I was a very passive, aggressive little man. And I'm lucky I've come out of it. Because you know, when you hate yourself, it doesn't matter what anyone does. You just push those people away. Especially when you have attachment issues and you have addictions, it's like this cycle of letting everyone down and then blaming it on every thing but yourself.

(singing) "Help me, help me Won't someone help me sleep? There's no right side of the bed With a body like mine and a mind like mine. My friend is so depressed She wanted to have sex I pissed in the kitchen sink As she slowly undressed"

雪莉（Shirley）：谈论在人声摊位中成为歌手的经历，录制您的人声，如果确实如此，那么您的嗓音。

乔：是的。我会告诉你什么，这是我认为与您谈论的重要事项，但也要对正在录制，录制或录制的任何人都对此有所了解，但对此有些好处，但认为他们可以做得更好。我认为，就像三张专辑以及我现在正在学习的内容一样，这就像拿起吉他，然后将其放入放大器中。就像，有一百万种不同的方法可以使猫剥皮并释放人声，有很多方法。

And one of the things I think that producers do, that they shouldn't do and engineers do, which they shouldn't do, is what men do all the time. They fucking act like they know exactly what they're talking about and there's no other way but their fucking way. You ask them for directions and they send you down 18 different routes. And it's like...

Shirley: At last. Joe Talbot, I love you forever!

乔：就像，“只要说，你不知道。只是说你不知道，你疯了。”

雪莉：您首先在展位上唱歌吗？

乔:噢,是的,就是这样。你问关于展位stuff. Yeah, I did. We try and capture the live element of our music and we've done it loads of different ways. With Brutalism and Joy and Ultra Mono, mostly, we gave each other three takes. So, the whole band played live together and recorded it. We had three takes to do the song. And that's it.

Shirley: And could you stomach the sound of your own voice?

乔：只是听到我的人声回来，然后说：“哦，是的。”就像，我总是惊讶于我有多喜欢。

Shirley: Such a great vocal though.

乔：谢谢。是的，我喜欢它。

雪莉：里面有很多。

（唱歌）“没办法，我们永远不会衰败我们不会像我这样的身体和像我这样的身体持续五分钟。我猜这是我们所能走的。我想就我们而言，这是我们的范围。到目前为止”

Joe: Brutalism is the first album we did. It's the first songs that I was really in control of the writing and knew I was writing the right thing and really enjoying it. So, with each bit, I was really just enthusiastic and just really happy that we were doing it. So I was happy hearing my own voice. I've never been one to worry about that.

Shirley: So, when you sing, especially as you grow up and you have more experience, at least for me, I felt like I could explore more. Like, I could try different things with my voice and then I realized I could also employ characters. Do you ever do that?

Joe: I do now. Like, I'll close my voice more for vulnerability. If I don't hear myself in the takes, I'll do it again. And I think that's key for me. It's like the characters. Music is a theater. It's like David Byrne writes about in his book, How Music Works. It's amplification. To see the eyes in the theater, you just draw bigger mascara, do you know what I mean? And it's like, the characters are like, they're all me... different parts of me. The small boy, the father, the alcoholic, the drug addict, the angry lefty, the hypocrite. All these. And they're all parts of...

Shirley: The lover.

Joe: The lover, exactly. And all the... the empathetic brother and all these things I want to portray. And it's just important to write those. And that does come with slightly different voices. And it's important now that I exercise that as much as possible, because it's like... It's more expressive.

Shirley: And then, what's the intent as a writer for you?

乔：找到我生活中的一种方法，感受到世界的一部分，并感受到与我的听众的联系用歌曲制作一条路。我从不希望观众给我轻拍，让我觉得自己在世界上占有一席之地。我想在音乐中反映自己的自我，因此我可以继续前进是最好的方法。我想感受到世界的一部分。对我来说，那是什么。

(singing) “With a body like mine and a mind like mine I guess this is as far as she goes I guess this is as far as we go I guess this is as far as we go. I guess this is as far as we go I guess this is as far as we go I guess this is as far”

Shirley: Thank you so much for your time and your consideration. I really appreciate it. And I can't wait to hear your new record. So much love to you.

Joe: And you. Well, thank you so much for having me on.

雪莉：这绝对是我的荣幸。

(singing) “Yeah... I guess this is as far as we go I guess this is as far as we go. My friend is so depressed…”

雪莉:跳是我主持的,雪莉曼森,and is produced by Dan Gallucci. The jump is an original series from MailChimp produced in partnership with Little Everywhere. Dan Gallucci and Jane Marie are the Executive Producers. The Jump is mixed by Mike Richter. Original music composed by [inaudible] and a very special thanks goes out to our wonderful Booker, Mara Davis.