跳跃 - 第3季 - 第5集
雪莉（Shirley）：杀手迈克（Killer Mike）和埃尔·P（El-P）在2013年成立珠宝之前就为自己起了名字。杀手迈克（Killer Mike）是2000年代初亚特兰大最好的年轻MC之一，能够保持自己的身份，并且经常在一个中脱颖而出。嘻哈中一些最重要的艺术家的人群。EI-P大约与纽约最具创新性的生产商和MC之一相同。我绝对很高兴与今天的一集一起播放珠宝。
你能听到的爱和尊重他们e another, not only in what they say, but how they say it. And on this episode, we talk about the song that hardened their creative resolve for years to come. I swooned through the whole thing. I'm utterly love struck. I'm Shirley Manson, and this is The Jump.
I am so thrilled to have you today. So thank you so much, gentlemen, for agreeing to sit down with me today.
Mike: Yeah, absolutely.
Shirley: And before we even go any further, I just want to say Run The Jewels 4 fucking blew my mind. I couldn't believe it, I thought it was... For me, it was the record of last year.
海梅：谢谢。
雪莉：我知道所有英国人都同意我的看法。
Jaime: Oh man. We're excited to get over there. That's for sure.
Mike: Absolutely, absolutely.
Shirley: I mean, it must be hard to release a record during COVID basically. It must have been really frustrating?
Mike: Well, we didn't know!
Jaime：实际上并不难！实际上，这是艰难的相反。它只是拿走了所有的工作。做一个唱片然后放大三个月很奇怪，但这很奇怪。绝对很奇怪。
雪莉：所以我们今天在这里进行专门交谈...我们总是选择跳高的一首特定歌曲，该歌曲代表了乐队或跳跃点的某种成长。因此，您选择了一个圣诞节他妈的奇迹作为您的跳跃点。
Jaime: Well, I'm guilty of that. I think that was the name that I threw in the pot. But a Christmas Miracle is the one on the album that I always think to myself was the start of something deeper for me and Mike about being partners, creative partners, and about being artists together. Because I think every record, you have a few categories of songs for Run The Jewels. A lot of them are just rooted in fun and shit talk and one-up-man-ship and those are the characters of El-P and Killer Mike and we're indestructible and those are our avatars.
那里总是有几首歌曲，您确实可以找到真正只是杰米（Jamie）和迈克（Mike）的人，就像人们，就像我们三十多岁的男人在一起，并且在探索音乐，艺术和写作的一生中都有一生。
这是我和迈克所做的第一张唱片，我们在一起真正摆脱了那种超级大国，并成为人们在一起。无论如何，这就是我的想法。我只记得当我们做到的时候，我认为我们知道是因为音乐的力量，并且自然感觉就像是时候忍受我们的灵魂了。而且，我一直认为，对我个人而言，如果我没有在运行珠宝上说什么，那节经文就足够了。
(music)
That was me in BK on Atlantic Never looked both ways, ran in traffic Pops went away but I stayed vagrant Placed where the steel and cement became nature Love what you did with the place, it looks gorgeous Cityscape where the blood of good men courses And the dreamers are bull trapped in porcelain Take a knee to the gods and get horse shit Wanna live for the thrill? They'll arrange it Got a bevy of imps to spit hatred Shit'll get in your head and cause panic Have you desperately begging to get famous Get your dignity dirty and left orphaned Sanity on the fringe of distorted Who are they to just take shit and hoard it? Who am I that I don't get my portion?
Jaime：这就是为什么我把它扔进去，因为我只是认为这对我们很重要，它打开了它，到我们必须运行珠宝2时，我们知道当时我们可以说真诚的话成为说唱伙伴的背景，这很重要。
雪莉：是的。因为我的意思是说现在听这首歌的意思，这可能比您在2013年写作时更重要现在是这样说的吗？
Jaime：我听了那首歌，我认为这是一个单元，它们是普遍的真理。我认为迈克在说普遍的真理。然后，我试图做同样的事情，并希望这些事情在某种程度上是永恒的。
迈克：我认为，这次使它更加相关的是，如果您谈论2012年，2013年，那是八年前的八点，那些八岁的孩子，九岁，10岁，然后年轻成年人。像我一样，当我从60年代与祖父一起在猿上看着星球时，我记得看过那部电影，并在同一1 - 2年的时间里读过动物农场，并开始理解不仅仅是比赛课。因为我在一个非常隔热的黑人麦加（Atlanta）中长大。因此，我没有像少数派一样长大，我所有的英雄和恶棍看起来都像我，因为我在一个黑人城市，我在一个由黑人为黑人计划的社区中，所以我知道种族主义存在，但是这不是我每天面对的事情。这是我在电视上看到的东西，使我非常害怕更大的世界。
当我以非常被动的方式在附近旅行时，这是我经历的。但是总体而言，亚特兰大给了我角色故事情节的内容，我知道您可能是任何种族或色彩的，但您的角色很重要。因为再次，我所有的英雄和恶棍看起来都像我，因为那些是掌权的人。但是我认为这些事情总是在这里，我们谈论社交，阶级，种族，杰米谈论在他的经文中武器化的爱。当他还谈到你已经出生的人已经出生，并拥有这种人类的经历，以及上帝如何不屈服于命运。对我来说，这是一件非常解放的事情。那就是来自无产阶级的。如果您在俄罗斯的旧俄罗斯，那是事实，如果您在南非种族隔离，如果您在种族隔离，那就是吉姆·克罗（Jim Crow），那就是美国，以及继续进行种族隔离，我称之为毒品战争。所以那些事情，我认为总是在那里。只是我认为10年前的年轻人或他们年纪大了，他们现在就知道了。
（唱歌）节拍断裂和牙齿断裂，使犬嵌入我的指关节中，作为纪念品，您的贴面似乎只是仅仅只是纪念品掉下你的嘴，然后在景观上掉到景观上，然后我的秘密握手，然后我pummel punch他的丘疹脸上的南瓜头朋克“直到他喝醉了，因为他很甜蜜，就像磅蛋糕一样（不是猫，迈克？狮子和猫头鹰都保持着甚至被屈服的力量告诉我们，如果我们屈膝，他们不会把我们带出来，但他们可以将其交给国王和皇后，以及偶像和追随者的信徒，因为我会因为我会的。宁愿遇到野蛮人，它被杀死或被杀死，我正在与平均值一起工作
雪莉：在写这首歌时，在社交，政治或个人上发生了什么？因为它没有阻止任何拳。
迈克：是的。我记得杰米（Jamie）说，我们的驴子和老鼠的明智之举很有趣，他就像“我们应该在这条赛道上说些什么。”就像赛道上的最后一个一样，他援引了遗嘱，所以我总是很想说些什么。从说唱的角度来看，我最终与一个理解说些什么重要性的伴侣在一起感觉很好。我的职业生涯大部分时间都是：“让我们找到会让您受欢迎的是什么，然后您可以说些什么，”您知道我在说什么吗？从与杰米（Jamie）合作，从一开始就开始运行珠宝，目的不仅要成为涂料，而且要在有机会的时候说些什么。所以对我来说，我只是，我一生一直在发生的事情。
我想拼命成为我喜欢的说唱歌手，喜欢说唱。我感到不得不说些什么，但是说唱音乐和制作珠宝1之间的第一次，团队完全参加了比赛，因为球队只是杰米和我。就像是两个有想象力的孩子，没有边界。因此，说些什么不仅仅是“我需要一个拼命的恳求代表人类说些什么”，但是最有利的态度是什么，我可以说些什么，让我说些什么，使这种狗屎听起来很浓厚，既酷又挑衅。真正的是两个看起来不一样的人，他们不喜欢同一信仰体系，而是发现了连通性和人性，在嘻哈中，我们的友谊是对可能性的展示。因此，当我们制作这张唱片时，我抓住了这个机会，自从加入该小组以来，我借此机会在精神，精神，身体和抒情上的成长。
(singing)
The most impressionable minds get molested And informed by manipulating forces Don't fret little man, don't cry They can never take the energy inside you were born with Knowing that, understand you could never be poor You already won the war, you were born rich You can only take the energy you had Going back to the realm or the home where your lord is Whoever whatever that lord is couldn't Give a fuck if you ever made fortunes Fuck anyone ever trying to run that bum shit Send them to the flames where the orcs live Them and the lost minds thinking they're smarter than us Don't understand love's importance And we can weaponize that, bring them back to the truth Where the ashes and dust got formed in
雪莉：那么它如何与你们两个合作？这让我着迷，因为对我来说，二人组是如此尚未探索。我们已经谈论过一百万次的乐队，我们已经谈论过一百万次的独奏艺术家，但二人组仍然是非常具体和神秘的事情。这是如何运作的？
Jaime：我认为这对我们来说也很神秘，因为就像我和Mike一起在他的专辑中合作的时候，这一切都是关于Mike的唱片。这是关于迈克本来和想说的话的根源。当我为治愈纪录的癌症做纪录的癌症时，这一切都是关于我的，我正是在同时做的。当我们运行珠宝1时，我们俩都在彼此的唱片上，我们刚刚刚开始巡回演出。我们发布了我制作的这两个唱片。令人惊讶的是，我们在彼此的一周内发布了它，我什至不知道那是计划。
Shirley: It was a cool headline, right?
杰米:这是一个很酷的整体旅游和磨破ked out because I remember Mike being like "my record's releasing a week after your record," and I was like "Oh, okay". So we were just like "we should probably tour together, then that makes sense." And we did, and we had a great time, great tours. We would do the records with each other that we had on each other's albums. And then after that, I was getting ready to kind of go back into solo Janie mode and try and make a piece of music in some way. I had this idea to put out some sort of free project, just something just to keep... because I was feeling inspired. I told Mike that I found this studio in upstate New York. We were all in a good mood and I brought my friend Taco up there, who's Little Shalimar, who co-produces on the records and this was the first time that me and him were really co-producing something together, working together. I just brought him up because we're best friends.
And I told Mike, I was doing this. And he was like "Hey man, I'll come," sure, I think Mike was in the same place he was psyched. But neither of us knew what the future was. We just felt good. We just felt like we had pulled off what we tried to pull off with our records. We had pulled off what we tried to pull off of the tour. And now the future was open again, here we are. And two guys who didn't know what their careers were going to be at two years prior all of a sudden felt like they were back and they kind of had energy and Mike was just like "yeah, let's go, I'll do it" and I was like "yeah, okay, sure, come on up." We did not know that we were going to become Run the Jewels.
我看着它的方式，我打算做一个名为Run the Jewels的项目，Mike就像“哦，我会来来去去。”这变成了我们去纽约北部的这个地方。我们正在寻找一个去城镇和预订两个星期的地方。迈克来了，他呆了两个星期，我们基本上继续进行了强烈的酒精，大麻和蘑菇的疗法，连续大约两个星期，然后开始度过一个愉快的旧时代，然后说唱我们的屁股。
雪莉：您在两周内制作了这张专辑！？
Jaime: We did the bulk of the lyrics in two weeks.
雪莉：天哪！所以，迈克，你说你必须有一种感觉，这可能会变成
Mike: Yeah, I knew in the first three hours recording with Jamie on my first record we was supposed to be making the music together, I didn't give a fuck. I was just like "I was born to rap over this guy's beats." I remember before we went up to start recording, he was like "man, it just takes me a long time to write, like five years in between records," I'm like "shit!". And we wrote two songs together really fast! Like "fuck that!" I remember telling my management team "I'm going to fuck with him." And they was like "what?" I'm like "yeah!" And they're like "what's going to come out?" I said "I don't fucking know, but I'm not worried about a solo record, I'm finna go do this tape!" Because it was fun. And then I really got to say part of being a rapper is, you start because it's fun. And even on the worst day or most argumentative not-see-the-same-perspective-way, it is way more fun than my rap career prior. In which I had bigger records or sold more or all the industry shit, but it wasn't me. I didn't get to be me.
（唱歌）我的名誉教授说，我们被诅咒被带到美洲，您如何抚养整个人类的单亲父母，没有婚姻没有任何遗产的计划生育，帮助计划流产，但我很幸运，妈妈已经有了青少年爱情的叙事产物，我从骄傲和我父母给迈克（Mike）的工作中兴起的傲慢自大，我被告知它是神的，甚至与魔鬼一起跳舞，好吧，好吧，荣耀你们吗？毫无办法拼写美国的三重词词至香料1和O'Shea，以及任何我经过真正的说唱的MC窥视，我的最后一行也是如此，对PIMP C和CAMU也是如此。
雪莉（Shirley）：当您真正录制了圣诞节奇迹时，请与我联系，这首歌出现了专辑过程的什么时候？
Jaime: Late. I think it was pretty late in the process.
Mike: It was in the end.
Jaime: It was definitely late in the record. And I know it was like in the record because because we had already done a bunch of jams and none of the jams were particularly of this ilk. And so I think that we had that moment where we talked about it and we were like "this sounds like something else, this sounds like something we haven't done yet." And it was really discussed ahead of time. It wasn't discussed in terms of subject matter, me and Mike really don't do that. We never really say "here's what I want to talk about." But if anything, we might talk about how the beat makes us feel and prepare each other for where our heads are at a little bit. And then whoever kind of sets the tone, whoever has an idea first after we talk about that really dictates what the other person does. And it's not like "oh, Mike just said this or told this story from his life or from his heart, so I need to tell a similar story," it's really just me or him checking what each other are doing with our spirit. You know, if I see that Mike is pouring his heart out I'm going to try and honor him by plumbing the depths of whatever my story is and whatever my history is and bringing something to it that is mine. But that is honoring that moment by being as heartfelt or as real as I can be in that context.
迈克：钢铁锐化钢。您只是在一些嘻哈音乐上互相启发。您不会仅仅与在您下面的B-Boy一起练习，您不会成为更好的B-Boy，而不是与最好的图形作家一起奔跑，就不会成为更好的图形作家。您不会通过载有板条箱成为最好的DJ。您必须每天起床并与自己竞争。那将使您达到一点。但是，让伴侣参加二人组的美丽是，您可以他妈的周围并没有灵感的一天。我有四个孩子和一个妻子，有时候我有很多狗屎落在我的腿上。我就像“我今天不是说唱歌手”，我会听到杰米的酒吧，我就像是“哦，不，让我走开斗篷，我忘了，我是个他妈的说唱歌手，我“将回到那个丈夫和孩子们狗屎。”
So I lean on him and you know to be inspired. I think that the coolest part about being a duo is even if you're tired and you're not running the play as hard as you think you can, your partner is definitely going to do that. There's an old meme of two UCLA basketball players: a kid messes up and he's taller and he holds his head down, and the kids who is shorter walks right next to him and picks his head up for him. And that's what being in a rap group with Jamie often is like. I know that one of us is going to inspire the other to hold their head the fuck up and let's kill this record.
雪莉：今天，我对您不太感谢。您是壮观的先生们，我迫不及待想听听您接下来的工作，我如此爱您。
Jaime：好吧，我们爱您回来，非常感谢您拥有这是一个真正的荣誉。
Mike: Thank you so much.
Shirley: The Jump is hosted by me, Shirley Manson, and produced by Dann Galucci. The Jump is an original series from MailChimp produced in partnership with Little Everywhere. Dann Galucci and Jane Marie are the Executive Producers. The Jump is mixed by Mike Richter. Original music composed by Hrishikesh Hirway. And a very special thanks goes out to our wonderful booker Mara Davis.
