The Jump

The Jump – Season 3 – Episode 7

Shirley: Imagine an exceedingly stylish, but nerdy music fan. Someone who is obsessed with learning about all kinds of music, even though they already hold an encyclopedic knowledge of that subject in their heads. Now imagine that same person is also a virtuoso musician, someone who can outplay almost anyone in the room, someone who has become such an incredibly in demand studio musician, that he has almost forgotten he has the desire to write and perform for himself. Now, imagine that person is one of your favorite friends, the person you love talking to so much that you feel comfortable being yourself around and that is funny and smart and engaged and interested. The first person you'd call after a stay-at-home order was lifted. That my friends comes close to describing Thundercat.

On today's episode, I talk to Thundercat about the song Dragonball Durag from his fourth album, It Is What It Is, recorded with longtime friend and collaborator Flying Lotus, and what it was like for him to make the move from all-star studio musician to bonafide front person. I'm Shirley Manson, I'm in love with Thundercat and this is The Jump. So listen, Thundercat, thank you so much for speaking to me today. I mean, I've become sort of obsessed. I hope you're not scared. I'm not dangerous.

Thundercat: I'm always scared. Don't worry, it's not you. I'm still wondering how the planet's been held up in space. I mean are the other planets just magnets? I don't know what's going on.

Shirley: That's a good question. So listen, here's where I wanted to start and I hope you don't mind me starting here because it's a bit of a funny start. But as I was doing my research, somewhere in the midst of all the stuff that they sent me, there was this little note that said, it says that you were in a boy band. Is that right?

Thundercat: Oh, my God. Yeah. No, it's pretty funny. I was in a little boy group. A little boy group. Yeah, I was like maybe 14 or something like that. 14, 15. All things being fair, it was kind of like one thing amongst many different things that I grew up doing. I think Flying Lotus just found a video of me, my brother on drums, Kamasi Washington and Cameron Graves at the John Coltrane Jazz Awards Festival. And yeah, he tripped out because it was like at the same time I was in jazz band, at that same time I played at church, at that same time I would play gigs just around town. I think it's also partially the environment of growing up in LA where it's not far-fetched, you know what I mean?

I have a couple of friends that were maybe involved in anything from little pop groups. That's just kind of like the act of being involved with music growing up. It was an interesting experience. It was I guess my first experience traveling abroad like that. And I remember we recorded an album in New York and then we played Pop Com. I think it was at camp Cologne or Hamburg Pop Com. And yeah, no, it was an interesting moment, to say the least.

Shirley: Wild. One of the reasons of course we're here today is to speak on one of the songs from It Is What It Is, which is Dragonball Durag. And tell me, first of all, if you will, why you chose that particular song out of the entire record to speak on today?

Thundercat: Well, Dragonball Durag, it's like a snapshot of a real moment for me that's like, I was literally trying to impress my girlfriend. I'm not even going to lie. I was extremely in love with the person I was with. And I mean, there's different degrees of how durag is such a normal thing in so many respects for so many of us, you know what I mean? It's just kind of like, oh, I may wear it. I may take it off when I get somewhere important so my hair is neat. There's a whole thing behind it, but it's not much of a thought for the most part for me, a person that will wear one all the time.

And I remember I was in the throws of recording a bit and I was just chilling and I remember it was this weird reaction it got out of her. It was almost like it drew her into me. I was like, really? I was like, you like this? Oh my God. It made me feel special. It did.

And it was like one of those things where I remember we would FaceTime a lot because we weren't in the same country. And I muted myself so she couldn't hear me. And I was recording and I was kind of singing to her and she was like, "What are you doing?" And I was like, "Nothing." I was like, "Absolutely nothing." I was happy that there was something that I did that she liked. It was a special moment, you know?

Shirley: Because it's about intimacy, right? Really?

Thundercat: Yeah. Yeah.

Shirley: Where someone will accept you even in your more humdrum [crosstalk], I suppose.

Thundercat: In your durag.

Shirley: Yeah. Yeah. So do you think humor, is it like a coping mechanism or a protectionism?

Thundercat: It can be. Other than trying to actually get a closer connection to God or like the different things we do, like meditating or praying or different things like that. I think that this is one of the best emotions ever dealt. You know what I mean? There's nothing better than laughing other than maybe farting. You can always laugh, you know what I mean?

Shirley: Yeah. But so when you came up with these lyrics, you came up with them without music or was this a memory that came back to you when you were with your [inaudible 00:06:39]? How did this come to being?

Thundercat: This song?

Shirley: Yeah.

Thundercat: This song, it's definitely the music came first for this. I feel like it was an idea that I had mowed around maybe at some point with another friend or two where it started with the baseline of course. I remember it was like, what am I supposed to do with this? And it starts, like baseline and drums. And creating chordal progressions and stuff like that. It all comes second nature sometimes. So there's a part of me that doesn't shy away from where the possibilities of the chords can lie based on the baseline. I feel like I will laugh. The minute my actual emotions come out about something I will laugh. If I ever find it, it'd be like, "Oh my gosh, this is ridiculous," you know? So even if it felt like the line, how do I look in my durag? I think that it stood out to me. It was like [inaudible], and I was just like, what am I talking about?

Shirley: So, tell me how the leap comes from being a bass player playing with other artists and the bass being your main instrument. How does the leap occur to deciding, you know what? I'm going to get my voice out there now.

Thundercat): I think that Flying Lotus played a major part in that for me. I was very soft-spoken as a kid. Amongst my friends, I'd be silly. A lot of the time I was very quiet. And you grow up singing in choir and all these different things. I always joke about it, I wasn't Beyonce.

雪莉：你不是萨沙吗？

雷电：不，不。但这是我知道旋律与和谐的事情之一，因为我在学龄前时在雅马哈音乐学校长大。是的，我与笔记，字母和类似的东西的关联在音调和内容方面非常协调。然后，您将其与您最喜欢的艺术家的聆听，例如乔治·杜克（George Duke），弗兰克·扎帕（Frank Zappa），托尼·威廉姆斯（Tony Williams），斯坦利·克拉克（Stanley Clark），他们在唱片上唱歌。因此，我中有一部分人知道不惧怕它，但是我永远不会走向它，因为那是我没有意识到的事情之一，这是我能做的。

So on meeting Flying Lotus, there's a part of it where we would spend a lot of time writing music together. And one day he just looked over at me and was like, "What about putting out your album?" And I was just like, "Okay." It felt normal at first until the part where he looked at me and was like, "You know you have to sing." And I was just like, "Ugh" And the first thing that came to mind was Tony Williams. And I said, "Okay." I think it was a real thing for me in that moment where I was like, what would I sing about? What am I supposed to talk about? And I would only know what my experience and stuff is. I can only speak from that. I don't know where else it would come from. And I just would try to follow in the path of the ones that laid it in front of me like that.

Shirley: It must be very frustrating to bring It Is What It Is into the world in this pandemic?

Thundercat: That moment, that was intense. That was intense. The initial shock of something that emotional coming from me, to absolute nothingness. Something that I've been able to play my whole life. I've been able to, even if I sneak in the back door of the club, sing whatever it was, you could sit in and play. And it's like, you don't get to do anything.

It was very jarring at first, but then it was kind of something that you got to want to laugh at. It's kind of like, of course. And that's why the album is titled It Is What It Is because it's just not meant to make any sense.

Shirley: I don't know, I'm sure you've probably heard this, but if you haven't, I think it's pretty cool. I just read that Pete Townsend has said he's obsessed with the record and that it's like Sgt. Pepper's by the Beatles. I mean, fucking hell.

Thundercat: Yeah, that's pretty awesome. That was intense to wake up to. And the first person I called was my dad. And I remember being a kid, me and my dad, we would only argue about a couple of things. One, we argued about Batman versus Marvel, Batman in DC versus Marvel. Batman was the one thing that we were, okay, sure, Batman. But DC and Marvel, I was like, "No, dad, Marvel." It doesn't matter. And then the other one was which Beatles album. And my dad would always be like, "Sgt. Pepper's." And I was like "Magical Mystery Tour." And he's like, "No, but Sgt. Pepper's." And I was like, "No." I was like, "No, Magical Mystery Tour."

And it was one of those moments where when he said that I got a little emotional about it because it was like whatever my dad instilled in me, it's coming out. And I called my dad and I was like, "Dad, Pete just said that this is like Sgt. Pepper's." And my dad laughed. And he was like, "Yeah, man." He was like, "That's in there."

Shirley: Wow.

Thundercat：是的，这有点以不同的方式打我，因为我一直想让我的父亲感到骄傲。

Shirley: Of course. I mean, I've gotten goosebumps just thinking about it. I mean, that's as good as it gets, you know?

Thundercat: Yeah. It hit me in a weird way. When I think about the emotions processed, I think a lot of the album is very emotional for me. And if I was going to talk about some things, it's hard to. It's hard to because there was a lot of loss, a lot of weird moments where I had to process it in such a way. I'm saying stuff quite literally on the album. And it was a bit traumatic for me in certain respects. And I feel like that song for me, it makes me happy to hear it. I laugh when I hear it. I'm like, "Oh, here I go."

Shirley: Where do you think your actual bass playing style comes from? Again, it's very signature.

Thundercat:我想我会一直这样说,伯尼·Worrell. Bernie Worrell played keys, but it's the way he played key base. I'm going to start from Bernie Worrell. George Duke, the way he played key bass to Gino Vannelli's brother. I mean the ones that we do know like Stanley Clark, Ron Carter, Jaco, Marcus Miller, Hadrien Feraud, Matthew Garrison, these are the guys that influenced the way I play.

Shirley: And since you became a lead vocalist, did that change the way you relate to being a player?

Thundercat:是的,它确实改变了,因为it's a whole new muscle to learn. It's different than sitting and practicing scales or practicing baselines. And it's a whole different muscle to work. So the ability to write to your playing... Anytime somebody can play and sing, it's awesome, you know what I mean? Like Alicia Keys, it'll never be old to me. It's something that's insane.

雪莉:下一步是什么呢?再一次,那一定是真的difficult to have brought out this really remarkable album during this awful fucking pandemic and sort of be stuck at home really pretty much. So are you working on music now or do you feel a little, "I'm not going to do another piece of music until this bloody thing is over?"

Thundercat: I think more than anything right now I'm just kind of working on my mental health.

Shirley: Yeah.

Thundercat: Yeah. And you know, everything about this moment is a lot. It's a lot. Everything is always constantly changing. So one thing that I love that Lotus always has, I always have this moment with Lotus where he's like," Hey man, this is just a moment in time." And it's just kind of like, it's always something to hold on to. So as crazy as I feel about, "Oh man, this is way too intense" or, "Oh man." It's just a moment in time and it's going to pass. Just try to ride it out.

雪莉：好，祝你一切顺利。我喜欢唱片。这太荒谬了。

Thundercat: Thank you.

Shirley:The Jump is hosted by me, Shirley Manson and it's produced by Dann Gallucci. The Jump is an original series from MailChimp produced in partnership with Little Everywhere. Dann Gallucci and Jane Marie are the executive producers. The Jump is mixed by Mike Richter, original music composed by [inaudible], and a very special thanks goes out to our wonderful booker, Mara Davis